Reassembling #3610

[Pat Marshall]

Several years ago, I hit a wall and got discouraged and stepped away from all things Mark II - my cars and the work I was doing on the Forum car histories. Well, I'm back and have resumed my work on the histories and my cars.

I am reassembling #3610 so I can sell it. More years ago than I'd like to think about, I took the car to an auto body place to have it restored. They took it COMPLETELY apart and then nothing happened until I got word that they had gone out of the restoration business and to come and get my car. Those who had worked on the car were no longer there, so, I ended up with a hulk and bazillions of disorganized pieces in boxes.

I have spent countless hours over the years documenting the histories of all the Mark II's which has been a valuable service to Mark II owners, present and past. So, I'm going to be asking owners for a little pay-back to help me put this car back together. I am thanking everyone in advance!

Does anyone have any pictures of the supports under the dash. Those are the black bars that supports everything under the dash.

I've got a box of them and nothing under the dash, so I'd like to put them in properly. Your assistance will be greatly appreciated.

Pat

[Roger Zimmermann]

Pat, I just have one small picture. I'm sure Holger will come with more help!21133

[Pat Marshall]

Thank you, Roger!

[Egenolf]

Hello Pat,

Here a picture off the disassembled bars in the right sequence:

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https://up.picr.de/40894030qz.jpeg

https://up.picr.de/40894080pj.jpeg

https://up.picr.de/40894090qj.jpeg

https://up.picr.de/40894091jl.jpeg

If you need more or other pictures, please let me know.

[Pat Marshall]

Thank you Holger. It looks like I have found everything except the wide support that the emergency brake bolts to.

[Nccco]

Fred Lasure here I'm not far from you in Blacklick. My car is partially disassembled your welcome to come and see for yourself
614 206 6234

[Pat Marshall]

Holger, your photo really helped. I found the support, it was mixed in with bumper support parts from my '59 T-Bird. It really looked like it belonged there.

Fred, I'll take you up on your offer to look at your car. You're only about 20 minutes away. I'll call you soon.

[Pat Marshall]

I know, I didn't document things when I took the car apart! :(

Anyway, can anyone tell me the specifications of the fasteners that attach the 2 window rails to the roof?

See photo please.

[Egenolf]

Pat,

There are three items, here some pics:

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https://up.picr.de/40943616jk.jpeg

https://up.picr.de/40943618vx.jpeg

https://up.picr.de/40943623ek.jpeg

https://up.picr.de/40943624dg.jpeg

https://up.picr.de/40943625jg.jpeg

https://up.picr.de/40943627bq.jpeg

[Pat Marshall]

Holger, thanks for really great pictures and your effort, but these look like they may be trim finish pieces. I'm looking for the fasteners (screws?) that attach the roof rail sets to the body.

Thanks again for your help.

[Egenolf]

Pat,

the roof rail trim is not fastened with screws but only clamped on the edge of the roof.

That?s why they are so difficult to disassemble without damaging them.

The photographed items indeed connect the trims with one another.

Edit: sorry, I am on the wrong way, you did not mean the moldings.

[Pat Marshall]

Holger, thanks again for your responses.

I'm not talking about the drip rail covering.

My question regards the two piece assembled rails that form the upper channel for the windows. (1)See Parts Catalog Illustration.

Here they are together (2),

they have holes where fasteners are inserted (3)

to attach them to the car body (4). Also notice the drip rail cover to the right of the channel.

I'm trying to get the exact specifications for the screw or whichever fastener attaches the double rail set to the car. The holes in the car seem to me to be very small relative to the openings for the fastener heads in the double rail sets.

[Roger Zimmermann]

From the sheets supplied by Barry Wolk: those screws had the number 52726-S8 #8-15 x 1/2. The inner side garnish moldings had the screws 52726-S7 #8-15 x 1/2 with washers 44710-S8. Maybe this can help...

[jdsnoddy]

Roger:
Good answer. Are those sheets on the forum website? If not, could you please post them. Many thanks. John

[Pat Marshall]

Roger, thanks for the information. What John just posted - Same here!

[Roger Zimmermann]

I will not...Because those pages are already on the forum, since 2010! Have a look here: https://www.markiiforum.com/showthread.php?896-Blueprints-Elmer-Rohn-Mark-II-and-Mark-III

[jdsnoddy]

Deeply appreciate your help. Thanks. John

[Pat Marshall]

So far, I haven't been able to open the Blue Prints file. John, have you been able to do it?

[jdsnoddy]

I am on a fixed data plan and have exceeded my limit. I'll try to download later at a public WiFi hotspot. Stand by. I'll let you know tonight. V/R John

[Roger Zimmermann]

So far, I haven't been able to open the Blue Prints file. John, have you been able to do it?
Pat, as the file is very large, you have to wait some minutes. My PC is not a bad one, I had to wait. Depending your installation, you can or cannot follow the progress of the down load.

[jdsnoddy]

Gentlemen:
This file is zipped and 154 MB.
On my Android it takes a special program to unzip. I'm not paying extra to unzip this info. I'll just wait for when and if I need it. Thanks for the post. John

[Pat Marshall]

BELT TRIM FASTENER CLIPS.

Please see the attached photos. These are the clips that attach the Belt Trim to the car.

Does anyone know of a source for these?

If there is no source, what have ya'll used instead of these (if any were missing) when redoing a car?

[Roger Zimmermann]

Pat, try www.restorationspecialties.com they have many, many fasteners. You can also take flat stainless steel, weld of silver solder a stud if you have access to the necessary tools.

[Pat Marshall]

Quarter Window Question

Attached is a photo of the quarter window assembly. My question regards the two window posts that slide in the track. There is a grove for a retainer clip. Can anyone tell me what they are retaining to hold the posts in the track?

[Mark Norris]

Hi Pat,

I might be wrong but just like the door window glass I think there are supposed to be sprung nylon track buttons clipped over each of these posts to hold the window assembly in the trackway;

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Ford would have called these "channel roller assemblies".
.
Readily available on Ebay;

https://www.ebay.com/itm/201564477731?fits=Year%3A1956%7CMake%3ALincoln&hash=item2eee2dd923:g:wg8AAOSwBahU1BkE

[Pat Marshall]

Mark, you're probably right, but the drawing in the Technical Manual has been throwing me. The drawing of the clip looks like the roller clips, but the drawing of the "roller" looks like two washers.

Here's hoping Holger weighs in on this.

[Egenolf]

I will look for it tomorrow.

:)

[Mark Norris]

Hi Pat, I see what you mean. Note when you pull the clip out of the roller (in order to fit the roller) you end up with two washers, a spring and the nylon center. On your drawing you can see the clip right above the "washers". Page 285 for the rear quarter windows does mention in step 14 "remove the spring retainers (ie. what I called the clips) from the roller assemblies" when removing the glass.

Hopefully Holger has a photo from the strip down.

[Pat Marshall]

Mark, the window posts may have rollers, but if they do, they are not the same as the rollers on the regulator arms.

Please see the attached photos.

Photo #1 shows the rear quarter windows and the two posts.

Photo #2 shows a regulator post (L) and a window post (R). The regulator post is longer and has a smaller diameter 7/16" than the window post 13/32".

Also the notch for the retainer clip is at the bottom of the regulator post while the notch is at the top of the window post.

[Egenolf]

Pat,

here are some pics of the original assembly:

Spring split pin and washer

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https://up.picr.de/41197410af.jpeg

https://up.picr.de/41197420op.jpeg

https://up.picr.de/41197429cf.jpeg

[Mark Norris]

..and some more clues from Barry's excellent posts on VW Vortex;

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close up of the the associated small parts tray;

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Certainly looks like parts of two roller type assemblies (springs, retainer, retainer washer, barrels in metal(?)). It would make sense that the barrel and spring mount behind the washer and retainer in Hager's photo.

[Egenolf]

Here is a photo of the dismounted assembly:

https://up.picr.de/41198264qj.jpeg

[Pat Marshall]

Holger & Mark, thank you, that's outstanding! Now I know what I'm looking for!

[Pat Marshall]

Hey, I found one - 1 more to go!

[Jack Bowser]

These look like the pieces that go across the window trim pieces where they meet and cover the space where they join together

There is another one like this that covers the screw that holds the side view mirror in place.

The picture of the brackets that go under the dash...The 2 on the right with the oval holes are the ones that go on each side of the glove box and those slots are where the glove box brackets go through these brackets.

I believe you will be able to figure where the other brackets go by trying to put them in the places where a bracket goes. Each bracket is different so only one will fit properly as you try each one..

If you need more help with this, I can try to take some pictures because I currently have my glove box removed as well as the other under dash panels.

[jdsnoddy]

Jack:
Could you please try again to attach the pictures?
I can't open them. Thanks. John
P.S. If you have any info on your carpet plate,
Please send that along too.
Very best regards,
John

[Pat Marshall]

Back to the belt trim fasteners. I contacted John McLean at the Lincoln Farm and he was able to come up with 10 from his Mark II's out on the farm. I actually needed a couple more that that, but these will do the job.

Everyone should consider the Lincoln Farm if you need non NOS parts. I also got the three 30" metal lines (2 steel and 1 copper - with attaching hardware) that run along the frame on the passenger side. They carry vacuum and water for the windshield washer system. He also salvaged a piece of the A/C ducting in the cabin overhead.

John is pleasant to deal with and is really into customer service.

[Egenolf]

Pat,

These are the pics, I made from the console assembly:

https://up.picr.de/41235212dp.jpeg

https://up.picr.de/41235213au.jpeg

https://up.picr.de/41235200ys.jpeg

https://up.picr.de/41235202qg.jpeg

https://up.picr.de/41235203if.jpeg

https://up.picr.de/41235204ft.jpeg

https://up.picr.de/41235205be.jpeg

https://up.picr.de/41235206gt.jpeg

[Roger Zimmermann]

Fantastic pictures. Obviously, I began my scale model too early! On the other side, without it, we would never have met!

[Egenolf]

On the other side, without it, we would never have met!

...and I would greatly regret that!

Roger, thank you very much for your kind words.

[Mark Norris]

Hi Holger - may I ask ...how do you post these full size pictures? I only get smaller pics when I post them.

[Egenolf]

Mark,

of course you can ask.

I am using an external image service provider (www.picr.de).

Mostly, I post the important pictures with the forum software too, so that the pictures are not lost, when the external provider is no longer working.

[Pat Marshall]

I agree, great pictures. Thank you Holger!

[Pat Marshall]

Another question - I am putting the trunk lid back on the car. To do that I have to install the trunk hinge assemblies and the torsion bars. Attached is a picture of the plate that holds the hinge arms and the torsion bars. Each torsion bar is inserted into a sleeve (circled in blue). My question is, is that sleeve threaded onto the plate?

It looks to me that the sleeve has to be removed before the assembly can be slide in between the the brackets and the wheel house for mounting. Once in place the sleeve can be mounted on the plate and the torsion bar then inserted into the sleeve.

Before I start wrenching on this part, I thought I'd ask if I'm on the right track or if I've got this all wrong.

[Knickoliss Iv]

I'm not sure why you could be struggling. I took mine apart and put it back together with the sleeve in place. The arms and links and pins were assembled as well.

[Pat Marshall]

Thanks, for your response Knick!

I will send pictures later today and you can show me the error of my ways.:)

[Pat Marshall]

I figured out the error of my ways I had been trying to put the hinge assembly in on the passenger side and it wouldn?t go.

So I tried the other assembly on the driver side and with some maneuvering it went in.

I then went back to the passenger side and it still wouldn?t go into place. Then on close examination I saw the the bracket was slightly bent. So with a little bubba love I got it straight. And viola! The assembly slid into place.

Thanks for your help.

[Knickoliss Iv]

Oh that's great! Glad to hear. What notch did you put your torsion bars on? I mistakenly set mine on the high one and when I actuated the trunk, that's how one snapped. In looking at the overspray on the original paint I saw it was originally set on the lower notch I dont know how I missed it. It might have already been weak anyway. That's what led me to look for another set and how I found out about the bronze vs steel hinge arms.

[Pat Marshall]

I set the torsion bar in the lowest position (because of your experience).

However, the hinge assembly has a lot of lateral looseness (all the nuts and bolds are tightened down) which can't be right. I may have to add more washers to tighten things up.

[Pat Marshall]

The reason that the hinge assembly was loose is that there are two connecting plates (I don't know what else to call them) used in the hinge assembly. I only thought there was one. When I took a plate off my other hinge assembly and put it on, the assembly completely tightened up.

The attached picture shows a hinge assembly with both connecting plates - I didn't see the 2nd one before.

The only problem is, is that in order to mount the trunk lid, I have to come up with another connecting plate. A machine shop is making one for me, and I'll have it next week.

[Knickoliss Iv]

Glad you got it! I wasn't able to find the same size washers. Either the outside diameter is not correct or the hole is too big. I haven't looked beyond my Ace Hardware store though. The thing that started my trunk debacle was that one of the cotter pins sheared off and the pin that goes through the connecting plates worked its way out bringing the trunk lid slamming down. Make sure and use steel cotter pins since the softer aluminum ones might get sheared in the same manner by the washer.

[Mark Norris]

How about taking some thin aluminium sheet (say 18 gauge) and drill/file a square hole to make a washer shaped appropriately then epoxy resin onto the back of the board over the original square hole in the card. That should give something to anchor the clip to without the card standing off the door frame (the folded over leather edges are about 18 gauge too).

If you want to get really fancy you could peel back the leather and slip the "washer" behind the card then re glue the leather edges back down and that way the glue is not under any tension.

[Pat Marshall]

Mark,

That's interesting, I had thought about cutting a thin metal sheet to cover a larger area and then cutting rectangular holes, but I wasn't sure if the sheet could be attached to the cardboard. I hadn't thought of making metal washers with rectangular holes and then resining them in place. You may be onto something there - there has to be a lot of Mark II's with that problem!

Because of the stitching and biscuit padding, option #2, peeling the leather back, is way beyond my pay grade.

[Jack Bowser]

A friend of mine who restore cars including upholstery replaces the cardboard piece with sheet PVC.

It is totally weather proof and he can heat it and shape it and it stays in the shape he puts it in.

I don't know where he buys it but I bet McMaster Carr has it.

He made the door panels for my V-16 Hot rod out of it.

Thats a lot of work however and I'm betting the thin metal pieces epoxied in will work fine.

A metal piece aththe front of the panel where they tend to stick out a bit will also solve that issue.

How many Mark II's have a ugly screw in this area?

[Pat Marshall]

I decided it was time to put the rear window and windshield back into the car.

The first was the rear window which I had done by a local "Perfeshunal" which didn't come out so well. See first photo.

Unhappy with that my son and I decided to put the windshield in ourselves. We followed the Tech Manual instructions and also found a great YouTube Video. We were surprised at how well it went. See the 2nd photo.

I'm not sure whether we'll give the local guy another shot or do it ourselves. (This time around the clips and chrome trim will go in/on first). :)

My 6'6" 290 lb son did all the tough stuff in this operation. I was really supportive!

[Barry Wolk]

I used the string method? Did you?

[Pat Marshall]

I sure did! It went as smooth as silk. The only difference is that I used 1/8" nylon line instead of 1/8" cotton sash cord, because of nylon's lower coefficient of friction.

I used to think that putting a windshield in was really difficult. It's not at all. The hard part is disassembling and reassembling the car to do the work.

[Pat Marshall]

Monday (7/19) my local glass guy is going to take another try at putting the rear window in. Since I've used him over the years, personally and in my business, I thought I'd let him try again. I haven't paid him yet.

I can't wait to see his expression when he sees that my son and I have reset the windshield!

[Pat Marshall]

Well, my glass-guy came out and re-installed my rear window correctly, he also installed the SS trim first (like you're supposed to!):rolleyes:

[Pat Marshall]

Progress is being made putting 3610 back together. Brake Booster assembly and Emergency Brake are in. Headliner has been reinstalled - it looks great. Steering column was repainted and installed. Will post some pictures - soon.

We're following up on Barry's suggestion of making a thin support plate to attach the door biscuit panels to the door, There's a good ole boy about 15 miles south that does laser cutting and he's working on it. I need 6 and once he makes 1, and it works, he can make a bazillion. Does anyone need support plates for their door biscuit panels?

We're about to put the under dash back together. If anyone knows the sequence of putting it all back in, it would be (VERY) helpful.

Now a question - There is something missing on the under-dash plate with the switches. Attached are photos from my #1494 and #3610 - both have those missing. What goes there, please.

[Barry Wolk]

I believe that’s for a clip to hold the bi-metal flasher. I think they rattled loose. I found one attached to the flasher on my car.

[Barry Wolk]

I will post a dash reassembly under a new topic.

[Mark Norris]

Hi Pat - Barry is correct, its the clip mount for the indicators flasher unit.

PS. I've sent you a PM about the door trim support plates you are having made.

[Pat Marshall]

3610 had an electric antenna, which I am replacing with an original vacuum antenna.

My issue is, I need an original (or reasonable facsimile there of) radio to antenna wire.

Jack said he doesn't have one (I suspect it's more of an issue of going out in his boneyard and pulling the fender out of a Mark II to get to it). I called Klaus Wojak, antenna restorer, and he said he sells no parts. Then I talked to John McClure - the Lincoln Farm and he said he'd check.

Wojak also said the antenna for the 1952-1955 Lincoln would fit.

So, does any one 1) have an antenna wire? or 2) know of a source for the wire? or 3) have a photo of the wire showing the fittings on each end?

[Egenolf]

Hello Pat,

3)

https://up.picr.de/41967631js.jpeg

https://up.picr.de/41967632ls.jpeg

Do you need a picture of the dismantled wire?

[Barry Wolk]

3610 had an electric antenna, which I am replacing with an original vacuum antenna.

My issue is, I need an original (or reasonable facsimile there of) radio to antenna wire.

Jack said he doesn't have one (I suspect it's more of an issue of going out in his boneyard and pulling the fender out of a Mark II to get to it). I called Klaus Wojak, antenna restorer, and he said he sells no parts. Then I talked to John McClure - the Lincoln Farm and he said he'd check.

Wojak also said the antenna for the 1952-1955 Lincoln would fit.

So, does any one 1) have an antenna wire? or 2) know of a source for the wire? or 3) have a photo of the wire showing the fittings on each end?

In order to expand your search it might be helpful to note that many of the vacuum-operated devices were supplied by Trico. I believe that they supplied the antenna and switch, the spritzer bottle and spray coordinator system. The temperature control vacuum switch located in the ductwork on the left side is their's, too. The water valves and vacuum pump by others. Have you flow tested your hot water valves? Have I written about that here?

I found the antenna parts I needed for a rebuild on a Caddy, but the housing and shaft were different. I never found a good source for the check valve in the antenna. Is Fikens still out there? He bought the last remaining Trico stash, he might have parts for antennas.

[Barry Wolk]

Maybe he can advise you.

www.rebuildingtricowipers.com

[Pat Marshall]

Holger, thank you for the photos. Now I know what I'm looking for.

Barry, Ficken is still in business. I called him yesterday and he does not have antenna stuff. Also, since I have several, I asked, and his price for rebuilding a Trico Wiper Motor is $150.

All the vacuum lines are in place (I used Jack's kit) as is the vacuum control switch (haven't connected the control cable yet). The hot water valves aren't hooked up because the engine isn't in the car yet. I haven't tested the hot water valves. If you wrote about that on the Forum, I haven't seen it but would like to.

[Barry Wolk]

If you wrote about that on the Forum, I haven't seen it but would like to.

Posted yesterday.

[Pat Marshall]

Good news for me! John McClure of the Lincoln Farm was able to find an antenna line in excellent condition.

It's very hard to get to a Mark II antenna wire and John had to check several II's to find a good one. He said he was only going to charge me $75 for his labor and was giving me the wire for free. Considering the alternative (none so far) I'm good with that!

John's sole business is harvesting parts from his car "Farm". He has a positive attitude to customer requests and is very prompt and responsive.

If you ever get a chance to visit the Lincoln Farm, you should it's an interesting experience.

Back in the day we would have said "Far out, it's a real trip". In this case, it's both figuratively and literally true.

[Pat Marshall]

I received the antenna wire from John McClure of the Lincoln Farm. It's in great shape! The vacuum lines have been completely redone, so now the antenna can be put in the fender and properly hooked up.

I also got the right rear radio hanger from John. It's perfect and already in 3610. Radio (which I had refurbished) is going in soon!

[Pat Marshall]

3610 is coming along, but more slowly than I want.

I'll be posting some photos, so here's a few.

As I've previously said I am putting the car back together with the intention of selling not restoring. As we put it back together we're doing it as correctly as we can. As examples the car had an after-market electric antenna and we've gone back to an original vacuum one and we have installed new correct vacuum lines.

23566

23565

23571

23570

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It's beginning to look a lot like a Mark II again

[Pat Marshall]

This is the clip that connects the vent control cable to the flip-flop valve in the fender ducting. I've only found one and I need three more.

So far, I haven't found a source. Does anyone know of one?

237892379023791

I've checked www.restorationspecialties.com & Mark II Enterprises - no luck.

[Barry Wolk]

Those tiny control cables were not used on other products, that I know of. I have some sample cables somewhere from Elmer’s stash. I’ll see if there are clips. If not, they look super simple to make of similar material. I think they used the same clips on the center console if you have a spare.

[Barry Wolk]

Thunderbird used them, my mistake. $2.40 each. Larry's Thunderbird under cable clip.

https://www.larrystbird.com/product/heater-cable-clip-5557/

https://www.larrystbird.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/T-18548A1.jpg

[Pat Marshall]

Outstanding! Thanks, Barry!