Price trend

[John Herrell]

(Seems like the most appropriate place for this.) In looking at yearly trend, it appears that the value seriously tanked in 2009 (hardly a surprise) and has taken a significant upward bounce this year. Any observations on whether this is the trend? (I wasn't in the market last year but it looks like maybe I should have been.) TIA

[Peter Baumgardt]

You can see the value change over time on Hagerty's price guide report.
https://www.hagerty.com/valuationtools/HVT/VehicleSearch/Report?vbe=36900
As you see, good cars are not getting cheaper.

[PaulB]

Hagerty always seems very high to me. My cynical view is their business is insurance so if they can get you to think you car is worth more, they are more likely to get you to buy insurance and more of it.

A resource I use often is http://collectorcarpricetracker.com I recommend any car guy get an account. Its free

You have to be careful though as some cars shown as sold, are actually not sold. I know when I was looking at one I had seen these as comps.

http://media.collectorcarpricetracker.com/auction_data/2013/10/5/190916277710/190916277710.pdf

http://media.collectorcarpricetracker.com/auction_data/2012/7/6/221060847665/221060847665.pdf

http://media.collectorcarpricetracker.com/auction_data/2014/5/2/151287818213/151287818213.pdf

http://media.collectorcarpricetracker.com/auction_data/2013/4/22/161008956441/161008956441.pdf

http://media.collectorcarpricetracker.com/auction_data/2014/9/12/111454636767/111454636767.pdf

http://media.collectorcarpricetracker.com/auction_data/2013/3/17/251241072127/251241072127.pdf

I would still like to pick one up but am not in a rush.

[PaulB]

Oh and at the site they host all the photos and descriptions from the auction. These are not shown in the sale pdf links.

[Peter Baumgardt]

Paul, maybe you're right and Hagerty has an interest in high prices.But I follow auctions in the US since four years and noticed that the prices for good cars are very often in the Hagerty-range, especially cars which are rated in the condition 2 field. It is a little bit different with cars in condition 3 or 4, here the prices vary a lot.
The collector car price tracker shows much lower figures, but when you see the Lincoln Continental 56 and 57 comparison you will notice that within the last year (since July 14) there were two sales of 56 and two sales of 57 with an average of $17,500. When you search for Continental Mark II you'll find no sale but "current market prices" between $41,000 for fair and $43,000 for excellent vehicles. That is ridiculous and most notably statistically without significance.
But when you mistrust Hagerty, try NADA even if they have a certain pseudo-exactness.

[Don Henschel]

And $41-$43 is a joke for what they cost to restore! This price should be higher for what these cars actually are. They are certainly not a Ford Chev or Dodge

[PaulB]

Hi Peter,

Hagerty is no help pricing cars that are rough or non runners. Their lowest rank, condition 4 is actually pretty good. "#4 cars are daily drivers, with flaws visible to the naked eye. The chrome might have pitting or scratches, the windshield might be chipped. Paintwork is imperfect, and perhaps the fender has a minor dent. The interior could have split seams or a cracked dash. No major parts are missing".

There is no 5 and 6 category and that is the sort of car I like and research.

NADA also has this issue from what I see with their lowest being "Low Retail Value -This vehicle would be in mechanically functional condition, needing only minor reconditioning. The exterior paint, trim and interior would show normal wear, needing only minor reconditioning. May also be a deteriorated restoration or a very poor amateur restoration. Most usable ‘as-is’. This value does not represent a ‘parts car’. Note: Some of the vehicles in this publication could be considered ‘Daily Drivers’ and are not valued as a classic vehicle. When determining a value for a daily driver, it is recommended that the subscriber use the low retail value. "

That is where the collector car price tracker really helps finding comps. They track EBay sales which is a better place to find drivers or other cars to work on.

The thing about a non runner is you have to expect and price in problems even if it was fine when parked long ago. I have had these start and run seemingly fine with little work then absolutely fall apart shortly thereafter with big engine and transmission problems. I would do whatever I could to get a non runner properly serviced and running before I sold. I enjoy this part of collecting and do it with my teen son and generally do a car a year.

Similar cars in some ways are the Imperials and the Studebaker Avantis. Imperials with build quality and the 62-63 Avantis with a design and rarity.

Sorry if I took the thread off on a tangent. My initial point I intended to make is I have found the collector car price tracker useful and wanted to share what I saw as a good resource if others didn't already know about it. It is especially useful when market pricing non daily driver type cars.

[VidyBidneth]

OCPG has Mark II values from 1 to 6: $3,600, $10,800, $18,000, $40,500, $63,000, $90,000.

The 57 Eldorado Seville from 1 to 6 is: $2,120, $6,360, $10,600, $23,850, $37,100, $53,000 interesting in that it is the same as the 4 door Fleetwood 60 Special.

The 58 Seville is valued 10% less than the 57 in OCPG

The Seville is a 2 door coupe like the Mark II

[VidyBidneth]

just to circumvent any misunderstanding, the 57 4 door Fleetwood 60 special is valued the same as the 57 Eldorado Seville by the OCPG

[PaulB]

What is OCPG?

Thank you

[VidyBidneth]

Old Car Price Guide, OCPG, my restorer swears by it over Hagerty because it gives you value #'s 1 through 6. It comes out every 2 months. But in the 3 consecutive issues I have there have been no change in value for the cars in which I'm interested. Also it values my Falcon Sprint convertible as only 8% to 9% over the 2 door hardtop. Who said, "If the top goes down, the price goes up?"

[RODPARTS]

Old Cars Price Guide. Old Cars Weekly is a newspaper type publication that also has classified ads.

[VidyBidneth]

But does it have classic car values?

Here's the link for OCPG:

http://www.oldcarsbookstore.com/old-cars-price-guide-magazine-one-year-subscription-u-s?cid=1120&gclid=Cj0KEQiA0-GxBRDWsePx0pPtp4sBEiQACuTLNiSvnRfO9fFopjgV3qu9REEr h0tVv7DMP-Ugme8qlvIaAuZM8P8HAQ

and here's another, The Collector Cars Price Guide:

http://www.oldcarsbookstore.com/2015-collector-car-price-guide?lid=ocwnav

[RODPARTS]

Old Cars Weekly publishes Old Cars Price Guide, I believe.

[toyman]

Hagerty is an insurance company they insure your car on an agreed value. That being said I’m ¾ done with my Mark II, it’s not on the road yet I have increased the insured value to $90,000. They have agreed to cover my loss at $90,000 if the car is destroyed. The values that they have place on their web site are values that they will pay. When I get this car done I’ll most likely insure it with them for more than $150,000.00 based on my cost records. If it were to sell at auction for over $200 they would insure it for that. Knowing this, I Think that Hagerty has a better handle on values than most other sources. I get several value guides each month and one of them is OLD CARS REPORT they have a 1960 Super 90 Porsche Roadster #1 listed value at $66,000. The last one that I know of that was bought cost $150,000 and it is a # 4. This book is not very accurate with foreign cars and yet they have the Mark II at $90,000 for a #1.

[toyman]

Here is some more info on Hagerty

-Dave Kinney, September 2015

The Hagerty Price Guide Index of 1950s American Classics is a stock market style index that averages the values of 19 of the most sought after collectible American automobiles of the 1950s. The list to the left shows the cars that make up the index, while the graph above shows this index’s average value over the past five years. Values are for #2 condition, or “excellent” cars.
Here are the cars the index
1959 Cadillac Eldorado Convertible 8-cyl. 390cid/345hp 3x2bbl
1955 Packard Caribbean Convertible 8-cyl. 352cid/275hp 2x4bbl
1957 Ford Thunderbird Convertible 8-cyl. 292cid/212hp 2bbl
1957 Ford Fairlane 500 Retractable Hardtop 8-cyl. 292cid/212hp 2bbl
1958 Studebaker Golden Hawk Hardtop Coupe 8-cyl. 289cid/275hp 2bbl SC
1956 Ford Fairlane Convertible 8-cyl. 272cid/173hp 2bbl
1950 Oldsmobile 88 Station Wagon 8-cyl. 303.7cid/135hp 2bbl
1959 Chrysler 300E Convertible 8-cyl. 413cid/380hp 2x4bbl
1957 Chrysler 300C Convertible Coupe 8-cyl. 392cid/375hp 2x4bbl
1953 Hudson Hornet Club Coupe 6-cyl. 308cid/145hp 2bbl
1953 Cadillac Eldorado Convertible 8-cyl. 331cid/210hp 4bbl
1958 Chrysler 300D Convertible 8-cyl. 392cid/380hp 2x4bbl
1956 Continental Mark II Hardtop 8-cyl. 368cid/285hp 4bbl
1957 Pontiac Bonneville Convertible 8-cyl. 347cid/317hp FI
1953 Oldsmobile Ninety-Eight Convertible Coupe 8-cyl. 304cid/165hp 4bbl
1958 Cadillac Eldorado Sedan 8-cyl. 365cid/335hp 3x2bbl
1954 Buick Skylark Convertible 8-cyl. 322cid/200hp 4bbl
1958 Chevrolet Bel Air Convertible 8-cyl. 283cid/185hp 2bbl
1957 Chevrolet Bel Air Convertible 8-cyl. 265cid/162hp 2bbl
It was interesting to see that the Mark II is one of the cars that they are interested in.

[VidyBidneth]

I've noticed the early Chrysler letter cars dropping in value recently. The 1958 Bel Air Convertible is probably an Impala, which was a subcategory. The 1958 Eldorado Sedan is most likely the Eldorado Brougham 4 door suicide door hardtop:

1958 Cadillac Eldorado Sedan 8-cyl. 365cid/335hp 3x2bbl
1954 Buick Skylark Convertible 8-cyl. 322cid/200hp 4bbl
1958 Chevrolet Bel Air Convertible 8-cyl. 283cid/185hp 2bbl

[Peter Baumgardt]

interesting cars, but who is responsable for that list? Where is the Corvette? Who cares for a 57 Bel Air with the smallest engine? The Power Pack (283/220) is the only one which counts. The same question concerns the 57 Thunderbird, who wants the 292/212? It's the 312/245 which matters. And an Impala is sought after with a 348 big block only. Three Chrysler letter-cars and not the 300B?
At least the Mark II is in the field. Okay, the rest is accebtable.

[Bob Barger]

I've noticed the early Chrysler letter cars dropping in value recently. The 1958 Bel Air Convertible is probably an Impala, which was a subcategory. The 1958 Eldorado Sedan is most likely the Eldorado Brougham 4 door suicide door hardtop:

1958 Cadillac Eldorado Sedan 8-cyl. 365cid/335hp 3x2bbl
1954 Buick Skylark Convertible 8-cyl. 322cid/200hp 4bbl
1958 Chevrolet Bel Air Convertible 8-cyl. 283cid/185hp 2bbl

Was the 58 Eldo a 3 door, I seem to remember the rear door only on the drivers side.

[VidyBidneth]

The Eldo Brougham was 4 doors with rear suicide doors and they did it with almost no B pillar:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uyefEVdy68U

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i3ApRa0hOEU

check this link out at 7 minutes in.

The Vanity Package if complete and original adds $37,000 value to one of these in #1 condition.

[VidyBidneth]

The TV show, Restoration Garage, which covers The Guild of Automotive Restorers project cars in Ontario, Canada has episodes about customizing/restomoding a 57 or 58 Eldo Brougham.