hood springs measurements

[patsbodyshop]

so i am in the middle or the restoration of 3095 and have run in to a problem the hood springs are gone and some jackass put a prop rod on the car. the Hood is very hard to open with out the springs. I have talked to a number of people who rebuild the hinges but wont except the cores without springs.

my plan is to have some springs made but i do not have one to get the details i need to have this done.

this is the company's web sight i am going to try using https://www.springsfast.com/products/extension-springs/guide-to-measuring-extension-springs/

Guide to Measuring Extension Springs
Thank you for choosing W.B. Jones as your spring resource. In this guide, we will be covering how to measure extension springs.

Tools we recommend you have before you start are:

A micrometer, which should be used whenever possible
Calipers
A ruler or tape measure for large springs
Watch this video on how to measure.


Measure the wire diameter.

We recommend that you measure the wire diameter in two different spots using a micrometer and take the average. This will allow for precise readings and accurate ordering.

For this spring, the wire diameter is .092 inches.


Measure the outside diameter.

This is commonly referred to as ?OD?. When possible, you should measure for the oustide diameter in the middle of the spring because the end coils tend to run large.

The ?OD? of this spring is .867 inches.


Measure the body length.

The body of an extension spring is considered the coiled portion. It does not include the hooks or loops. For this spring we?ll use a ruler, but for smaller springs using calipers or a micrometer is the best option.

For this spring the body length is 4.791 inches.

You can also provide the number of coils when using our online form. Remember to count each full rotation.


Measure the overall length of the spring.

This is the length over the top of each end or outside to outside.

The overall length of this spring is 6.055 inches long.

any help on this would be great or if anyone is in the middle of a resturation and could loan me one of there springs for a bit that would be awesome.

Thank you

Andy
Pats Body Shop
715-848-9153

[Mark Norris]

I recall Holger had some new hood springs made in Germany for his car, it might save you a lot of hassle/risk. Hopefully he will comment shortly.

Here is the post he made at the time (looks like he might have some spare ones!);

https://www.markiiforum.com/showthread.php?9646-Hood-Springs&highlight=hood+springs

[Barry Wolk]

Used hood springs work fine. Inspect the perches for the springs. If they are worn "round" the hood won't stay up. Restore the perches with weld and you won't have to reinvent the wheel.

[patsbodyshop]

Used hood springs work fine. Inspect the perches for the springs. If they are worn "round" the hood won't stay up. Restore the perches with weld and you won't have to reinvent the wheel.

I am sure used springs would work great problem is there were no springs with the car, someone installed a prop rod to hold the hood up, a prop rod that we would like to remove.

[Barry Wolk]

I am sure used springs would work great problem is there were no springs with the car, someone installed a prop rod to hold the hood up, a prop rod that we would like to remove.

Used springs are available. My opinion is that you're making this more difficult than it is. Consult with Lincolnland or with Mark II Enterprises. There are parts cars that have them. With production variables you could make them just slightly too strong and kink the hood, or slightly too weak and slam your head with the hood.

However, it's just what I would do. You'll likely have to remove the hinges to install the springs. Have you had the hinges rebuilt? If not you'll likely have a hood rise at the firewall.

[patsbodyshop]

Used springs are available. My opinion is that you're making this more difficult than it is. Consult with Lincolnland or with Mark II Enterprises. There are parts cars that have them. With production variables you could make them just slightly too strong and kink the hood, or slightly too weak and slam your head with the hood.

However, it's just what I would do. You'll likely have to remove the hinges to install the springs. Have you had the hinges rebuilt? If not you'll likely have a hood rise at the firewall.

i have the hinges removed already i have talked to mark II enterprises and they have zero springs available and won't sell the hinge assemblies with out cores with springs. Do you have the contact info for lincolnland? I also talked to a guy that rebuilds the hinges but wont sell them with out cores with springs. trust me i am not making this harder then it is and will pay top dollar for a good set of used springs!

[Barry Wolk]

What are you willing to pay. I know of a car that the owner is close to parting out, but it takes a bit of work to remove the hood. As you have found out, you don’t want to have a hood on a car without springs. Removing the hinges to get you cores involves disassembling much of what’s under the dash to get to the 4 nuts. Keeping that in mind I’d present your offer.

[patsbodyshop]

What are you willing to pay. I know of a car that the owner is close to parting out, but it takes a bit of work to remove the hood. As you have found out, you don’t want to have a hood on a car without springs. Removing the hinges to get you cores involves disassembling much of what’s under the dash to get to the 4 nuts. Keeping that in mind I’d present your offer.

Ow the hood hinges were not that bad to get off haha. I'll pay 300 for the springs hell I would pay someone $50 just to go out and get me the measurements off there car.

[Mark Norris]

No need for money Andy, here are the basic figures for the hood hinge tension springs;

Wire diameter = 7.30mm
Coil OD = 42.20mm
Number of turns = 22.5

When relaxed the tension springs are close coiled (ie. little or no gaps between each turn).

The hood end has a longer tail with hook than the hinge mount end.

As I mentioned Holger had some copies made a year or two ago in Germany and recently reposted a photo of them. Even if he does not have any spares then he likely has a technical specification the spring manufacture made when reproducing them.

However note what Barry mentioned about damaging the hood with springs that might be too strong. I have personally experience of something similar with the original units ...I always now use a hood prop and don't let the hood hang on the springs after the skin popped several spot welds.

By the way this Ebay seller seems to be breaking a Mk2 that's way beyond saving;

https://www.ebay.com/itm/154476577014?hash=item23f78580f6%3Ag%3AzqoAAOSw3AN g4SvF&LH_ItemCondition=4

Why not send him a message and ask if he has a set of hood hinges including springs to sell (if the photo is current then they are still there).

[patsbodyshop]

No need for money Andy, here are the basic figures for the hood hinge tension springs;

Wire diameter = 7.30mm
Coil OD = 42.20mm
Number of turns = 22.5

When relaxed the tension springs are close coiled (ie. little or no gaps between each turn).

The hood end has a longer tail with hook than the hinge mount end.

As I mentioned Holger had some copies made a year or two ago in Germany and recently reposted a photo of them. Even if he does not have any spares then he likely has a technical specification the spring manufacture made when reproducing them.

However note what Barry mentioned about damaging the hood with springs that might be too strong. I have personally experience of something similar with the original units ...I always now use a hood prop and don't let the hood hang on the springs after the skin popped several spot welds.

By the way this Ebay seller seems to be breaking a Mk2 that's way beyond saving;

https://www.ebay.com/itm/154476577014?hash=item23f78580f6%3Ag%3AzqoAAOSw3AN g4SvF&LH_ItemCondition=4

Why not send him a message and ask if he has a set of hood hinges including springs to sell (if the photo is current then they are still there).

thank you for that and i did send the guy on ebay a message

can you get me the over all length of the springs and the lengths of the hooks from the coils?

Thank you very much for the help!

[Barry Wolk]

Andy,

Did you observe any wear on the spring perches? My hood required a stick until I filled in the wear with weld. There was about 3/8" of wear for each spring, limiting the ability of the expanded spring to keep up the hood. Is there any wear at all in the hinge points? Just a small amount of wear is all it takes to be plagued with hood rise.

[Mark Norris]

thank you for that and i did send the guy on ebay a message

can you get me the over all length of the springs and the lengths of the hooks from the coils?

Thank you very much for the help!

Hi Andy - two points

1) its very difficult to accurately measure the spring overall length on the car because at all hood positions its expanded under tension and also the hook ends are not readily accessible. I strongly suggest the best plan would be to send Holger (Forum name Egenolf) a private message via the Forum and ask him if he has a technical drawing of the replica hood springs which he had made in Germany and that should give you everything you need, more info here;

https://www.markiiforum.com/showthread.php?9646-Hood-Springs&highlight=hood+spring

... and/or purchase the used springs from the vendor on Ebay (I can't imagine he'll want much for them).

2) Note Barry's suggestion to check the wear on the holes where the hood spring hooks attach into the hinges. These are pantograph hinges meaning they allow the rear of the hood to both swing up and down and raise vertically up and down as the hood is opened and closed. Any slop in the pivot points or spring holes will respectively fail to allow the rear of the hood to drop far enough to align with the front windscreen scuttle and will not allow the hood to stay up properly. You can rotate the hinge slightly on its mount bolts to compensate (front of the hinge upward, rear of the spring downward) if its only minor wear but beyond that its a case of rebuilding the hinges by a specialist.

Even with good hinges I still always use a temporary hood prop to relieve the stress on the hood skin behind the hinges, I'm afraid the whole hood hinge and spring arrangement on the Mkii is something of a weak point in the design. I suspect the hood is larger and heavier than most other designs Ford had at the time and like any new car it was rushed a bit in certain areas (I doubt anyone wanted to spend a lot of time on the hood hinges when there are other more interesting/visible parts of the new body to get right).

[Barry Wolk]

Interesting. You point out flaws in the designs of systems all the time and people take it in stride and I point out flaws in the design and I’m ruining the value of the cars. Seems odd. I think we both provide the same info, taken differently.

[Barry Wolk]

When I got my car 20 years ago the hood wouldn?t stay up. Many people were claiming that the only way to keep the hood up was to rinse the hinge points in alcohol to wash away any lubrication. They were advocating friction as the fix. Bad advice is always bad.

[Roger Zimmermann]

Many people were claiming that the only way to keep the hood up was to rinse the hinge points in alcohol to wash away any lubrication. They were advocating friction as the fix. Bad advice is always bad.
It was really a bad advice!

[patsbodyshop]

Hi Andy - two points

1) its very difficult to accurately measure the spring overall length on the car because at all hood positions its expanded under tension and also the hook ends are not readily accessible. I strongly suggest the best plan would be to send Holger (Forum name Egenolf) a private message via the Forum and ask him if he has a technical drawing of the replica hood springs which he had made in Germany and that should give you everything you need, more info here;

https://www.markiiforum.com/showthread.php?9646-Hood-Springs&highlight=hood+spring

... and/or purchase the used springs from the vendor on Ebay (I can't imagine he'll want much for them).

2) Note Barry's suggestion to check the wear on the holes where the hood spring hooks attach into the hinges. These are pantograph hinges meaning they allow the rear of the hood to both swing up and down and raise vertically up and down as the hood is opened and closed. Any slop in the pivot points or spring holes will respectively fail to allow the rear of the hood to drop far enough to align with the front windscreen scuttle and will not allow the hood to stay up properly. You can rotate the hinge slightly on its mount bolts to compensate (front of the hinge upward, rear of the spring downward) if its only minor wear but beyond that its a case of rebuilding the hinges by a specialist.

Even with good hinges I still always use a temporary hood prop to relieve the stress on the hood skin behind the hinges, I'm afraid the whole hood hinge and spring arrangement on the Mkii is something of a weak point in the design. I suspect the hood is larger and heavier than most other designs Ford had at the time and like any new car it was rushed a bit in certain areas (I doubt anyone wanted to spend a lot of time on the hood hinges when there are other more interesting/visible parts of the new body to get right).

i have messaged egenolf with no reply just was hopping to find someone that had a spring off

i am well aware of the spots the springs ware in to the hinge ill be welding them up and pulling the caps off the pivot points to see what needs to be fixed there. whoever at ford thought it would be funny to braze the caps on..... unless that was not done originally and they guys that still have the springs did it...

[Barry Wolk]

They are rivets. They are not brazed.

[Mark Norris]

I've emailed Holger on your behalf and see what drawings etc. he may have ...he's a great guy but quite busy on a frame up restoration of his Mkii.

[Egenolf]

Hello all,

I am sorry but I got no message until Mark sent me a mail today.

Here in Hannover we have a company that is able to produce the springs. They do not need a drawing for this, just a sample.

You can see the dimensions of the spring in the attached pictures:

Length overall: 27,6 cm

https://up.picr.de/43948674ir.jpeg

Length of the windings: 17,0 cm

https://up.picr.de/43948676xl.jpeg

It is certainly possible to order some springs here, I think the costs including shipping to the US are approximately 250$, I have to check more details first.

However, you should check beforehand whether it is due to the springs or the hinge.

[Barry Wolk]

I believe no one will send him rebuilt hinges without cores, including the springs.

[Egenolf]

For the new springs, no core is needed.

[Mark Norris]

Just as well, he is missing the springs and is just left with the hinges which he aware are worn and will need rebuilt/welded filler.

[Barry Wolk]

For the new springs, no core is needed.

I think you misunderstood. In order for Jack to send out rebuilt hinges he insists on getting the springs with the core, before he sends out the replacement. That's the only way he can keep the cycle going.

[Mark Norris]

I think you may have misunderstood Holger ...he purely means in order to get new springs made in Germany Andy does not need an old spring as core to copy since Holger already has had them made before (hence the manufacture already has all the details on file). Jack and hinge/spring needs is a whole other issue (good thing he has a stock of parts cars as he's helped me out a few times with impossible to find bits).

[Egenolf]

Mark:

„Thanks“ Button :)